quest/char/faction concept

[teufelich]

first off want to say hi to everyone <been working a bit and haven't been on forums much lately, well responding much>

So an Idea, and something I think would be good for FoA

If you are Lukron from start, I feel you should only be able to pilot the Lukron mechs. Same for if you start Genoma, Senka and Tekron.
Now, I am not saying you can only play those mechs throughout your existence as a mech pilot.
Technology will be acquired, mechs scrapped and repaired, maybe some good ol, "my mech don't work for me lets see if their mechs work for me"
And I am not a fan of having to train out 1800 freaking skills over 4 months to get into a ship you think would be good only to realize it sucks.

So, What I am thinking of is that if you pick Lukron from the get go, but at some point you see a Tekron mech you think would suit your playing style better, We run a quest.  Not something that can be done in an hour, but not take 4 months.


Example, <using Lukron first>

You start off Lukron and you want that Tekron Mech.
Of course you are not permitted to pilot a TekMech, so you need the permission/clearance/understanding etc whatever you want to call it
First you will need to find a Tekron that gives you the quest line <if going for genoma youd have to find a genoman, etc>
Now the NPC gives a series of missions directly related to your desire to pilot their mech.
This might include/not limiting to, having to help the tekrons in certain ways against the other factions <maybe even yours>, Random combats against NPC's, Infiltrations, Confiscations, and going to Other NPC's to help/aid them <small missions> to report back to your NPC of success.
Of course once completed all the stuff the NPC has you do, Your character now has "Permission"/Clearance/Understanding/Flag that allows you to pilot another factions mechs.

Expected time to do this, is a real quest, takes time, not something you can pound out in a few hours, but was thinking something of 3-5 days MAX.
Any quest that takes over 5 days is a freaking relationship you have to call back the next morning cause you are partially committed. <google: college relationships gone bad>

The Min 3 days is taken from Ben Franklins Idea "Guests are like Fish and Family, after 3 days they begin to stink."  Thus making the player have to think about starting this and willing to tolerate it for a bit.  there should be some Decision if this is a path one wants to take.  However, the quest should not take longer than 5 days.  Now this is counting 5 active days.  Not log in once a week and do 1 part.  that would take 3-5 weeks real time.  But technically if you start the quest on Monday and you log in every day and work the quest by Wednesday or Friday at the latest you should be done.

This my thoughts on the subject and would love to hear what everyone else thinks.
what I am aiming for:
Player to actually have to decide if its worth it
Setting up for players to drive other factions mechs
NOT requiring long drawn out training skill lists
Something not a quick 2hr attempt and achieved.

[Gremora]

That idea sounds really good and helps to keep the immersions of the game.   I am not sure on how hard of a coding it would be, but they could have it where when you complete the quest and turn it in there is a set time limit before you can get the next quest to continue down the chain.  As in 3 to 6hrs (time can be adjusted higher if need be) of real time must pass then the quest giver will give you next part of the quest to this chain.

[Agamemnon]

Essentially what you are asking for is a faction system, which in a manner of speaking is planned for/in the works. 

For anyone who played SWG in the day an example would be: You start out doing quests/missions and you kill valarian troopers (they work for lady valaria) and that gives you faction in Jabbas's court. At a certain point you reach a point where you may be able to enter Jabba's Palace (without getting shot at) and then you can start essentially a quest chain within the Jabba Palace Theme Park. Once completed you could always switch back to Lady Valaria faction by killing Jabba's guys or other factions etc.

There were many factions in that game like Imperial/Rebel, Jawa/Sandpeople, Jabba/Valarian etc etc. Essentially that is what you are asking for which is something that Multiverse does allow for and some games have already have implemented on the MV WIP site. We're still on the planning on how it will be implemented specifically within the FOA realm but "my" preference was something similar to the SWG method as I described above. It really isn't to hard to code in given that method but the question will be, what happens with your negative faction in your starting faction, how do you gain it back, is there more then one faction you can go negative in, if you are pirate faction are you negative with all factions etc...many things to think about within the implementation schema. But I do like and am open to other ideas on what you guys would prefer to see....

I do agree with your statement though I don't want to spend 4 months grinding (eek i hate that word) faction for Lukron to only see a kewl senka heavy I'd like to pilot for my guild/corp and then have to lose Lukron faction to get that senka heavy...besides quest/themeparks runs what would be a better solution in your opinions?

[Sturm Kintaro]

I think that a different/better system would be more of a hybrid... take for example the rank structure I proposed, and intermingle that with this idea.

So say at Rank E-3 you can now pilot 'Mechs of 80-115 tons.  If you're a Lukron, you start off with Lukron... but if you wanted to pilot a Zekcom 'Mech instead, instead of grinding you have 2 options - do a few quests to unlock the 'Mech (time cost) or b) Bribe a 'Zekcom person to obtain the certificate you need to buy one of these 'Mechs (money cost).

Obviously grinding isn't what anyone wants to do; by giving players the option they can determine if they want the easy or hard way, and it keeps the game fun as opposed to Repetitive.

Example : I really wanted to play a T2 Battleship in EVE, there was a sweet Electronic Warfare ship I really wanted to try out.  Only problem was, to get the skills needed to use it effectively, It was about a 3-4 month wait to learn the skills.  Unless you're realllly patient, that's a pretty significant problem in character design, just to be able to PILOT that 1 ship.

I don't want to see FOA travel down the grind path

[teufelich]

Sturms Rank Structure clicky here

.... instead of grinding you have 2 options - do a few quests to unlock the 'Mech (time cost) or b) Bribe a 'Zekcom person to obtain the certificate you need to buy one of these 'Mechs (money cost)....

....but they could have it where when you complete the quest and turn it in there is a set time limit before you can get the next quest to continue down the chain.  As in 3 to 6hrs (time can be adjusted higher if need be) of real time must pass then the quest giver will give you next part of the quest to this chain.

Oy this all fits into what I was thinking, Love the idea of being able to bribe a representative of apposing faction to get the clearance <flag of approval> and the 3-6 hours would be good if going the quest route.

I do agree that if we can create it so that players have the option of paying out their life savings <so to say > or spending the time to do the quest this gives a lot of flexibility.

so example: <Keep in mind ill use a lukron player for the following>
Player finds representative, Rep gives option to waste time save money, or fork over your bank account.
Player opts to fork over bank account, walla is now approved to drive genoma mechs
OR
Player opts to spend his/her time to save money and maybe earn some extra dough
- gets mission 1 from rep, completes, reports to the rep that's done, rep asks him/her to come back in 3hrs.
- and so on through chain until done and recieves reward of approval is earned.


Taking this into concept using 3 as a conceptual not practicle number atm
say the avg player spends 3hrs a night playing, this gives them a chance to get 2 parts of the quest done before logging off and going to bed.
taking into effect of rule of 3, say we want it to last min 3 days on this concept, the quest line would have estimated 6 parts to it.

thus making it doable in a regular week and not lining it up for allnighters for those that should sleep... I mean why wait around for 3 hours when you can just pick it up tomorrow and be done before the weekend and have your new genoma mech

OR doing it this way on quests would be 3hrs * 6 missions - no waiting on first mission = 15hrs  < for math thats 3*(6-1) = 15 >
So if a player wanted to they could burn their weekend, sick day or whatever and be in a genoma mech before they go to bed... this is not counting time spent on each missions cause no one knows how long a player will take.

thus does not = 4month grind, less than 1 week possible for access to other races mechs and using Sturms rank structure that would be the only restriction on what mechs you could use on other races.

so if "E-3" rank allowed 80-115 ton mechs, with this quest you can pilot Lukron and Genoma mechs up to 115 tons...  And the quest wqould not be needed to repeat if your rank goes up, cause I HATE REPEATING QUESTS and then it would technically be grinding at that point and loose the 4month luster that eve makes everyone do waiting on 1 ship...






SWG, never played it... think ill let aggi fill me in when hes bored

[XoRys]

I completely support Sturm's opinion. The idea of a bribe very much pleasant to me. But it should not occur instantly, differently it would be too simple. I consider expedient to enter a chain of quests which will allow you to find the person who needs to be bribed.

[teufelich]

I completely support Sturm's opinion. The idea of a bribe very much pleasant to me. But it should not occur instantly, differently it would be too simple. I consider expedient to enter a chain of quests which will allow you to find the person who needs to be bribed.

so instead of bribing the rep, the rep would start you on a second line of quests taking <for random example> credits to get through rather than doing 15+hrs of questing.....

so option 1 being the 15+hrs of missions
option 2, pay x amount of creds, find npc, pay another x amount etc.... thus still taking some time but much less than if doing free route
  - so instead of 0 creds 15+ hrs looking at say 3hrs and xxx creds?

[Gremora]

Both ways of questing sounds very good and with sturms idea of ranking would be great for those who align to one faction.  

Mind you these quests only give you clearance/permission to pilot and/or own other faction mechs.  Once you have the clearance you still have to go out and get that mech.

For faction soldiers, they will have to get it through capture or black market.  For the mercs, they can purchase it directly from the company they are working for at the time, black market, or capture it out on field.

[Sturm Kintaro]

Well in part, yes this is a game, but it also makes sense from a gameplay/"real life" perspective.  If you're just starting out, no one's going to trust you with a 30+ million credit 'Mech... you're going to have to earn it.  Work your way up in the 'Corp, or prove your skills on the battlefield, and then people might consider letting you get access to heavier hardware.

Depending on what types of 'Mechs players and Wardog comes up with, there should be quite a few for players to choose from.  Also depending on the skills in game, it may be possible to reverse-engineer some parts of 'Mechs, which could also add another element to the whole 'Mech concept.

Also, this same ranking could also be applied to other vehicles in game.... Tanks, VTOL's, Aircraft, etc....  I only used 'Mechs in my description to keep the discussion as streamlined as possible.

[Hamilton]

That is more stuff that I had come up with of using other Faction Mechs.  The rule that was to be used was a Certification/Familiarization Program.  Which was not much, 3 character points for Faction Mech, and maybe 5 for nonFaction Mechs.  Though that is on the simple side and the above information looks more in depth... which is a good thing.


Abstractions/Assumptions of why there would be a need for "Getting to know your Mech":
- Each Faction has its own way or belief of how a Mech (or other vehicles) operates (Lukron uses sticks that move by a pilot's actions, while ZekCom uses sticks that do not move, but sense pressure by a pilot's hand)
- While the game will use only one language (hoping for localization as well), there is an assumption that each Faction has its own use of the language (ie: Queen English, American English)


Additional Point:
To add to this is the level of technology of the control system (cockpit).  Advanced cockpits attempt to use connect with a person's mind (cybernetics) and do away with mechanical or electronic systems (sticks, pedals, buttons).  One example would be of the Neural Link system, which requires interfaces (jacks) to be implanted to the pilot's head.  If a Mech has such of a control system, then the pilot must either acquire those jacks (by quest or credits) or attempt to remove the control system with one that the pilot can use.

[XoRys]

so instead of bribing the rep, the rep would start you on a second line of quests taking <for random example> credits to get through rather than doing 15+hrs of questing.....

so option 1 being the 15+hrs of missions
option 2, pay x amount of creds, find npc, pay another x amount etc.... thus still taking some time but much less than if doing free route
  - so instead of 0 creds 15+ hrs looking at say 3hrs and xxx creds?

Yes, but it is not obligatory to give bribes some times. It is enough to give bribe once doing last quest in a chain of quests.

Abstractions/Assumptions of why there would be a need for "Getting to know your Mech":
- Each Faction has its own way or belief of how a Mech (or other vehicles) operates (Lukron uses sticks that move by a pilot's actions, while ZekCom uses sticks that do not move, but sense pressure by a pilot's hand)
- While the game will use only one language (hoping for localization as well), there is an assumption that each Faction has its own use of the language (ie: Queen English, American English)


Additional Point:
To add to this is the level of technology of the control system (cockpit).  Advanced cockpits attempt to use connect with a person's mind (cybernetics) and do away with mechanical or electronic systems (sticks, pedals, buttons).  One example would be of the Neural Link system, which requires interfaces (jacks) to be implanted to the pilot's head.  If a Mech has such of a control system, then the pilot must either acquire those jacks (by quest or credits) or attempt to remove the control system with one that the pilot can use.

I like this game more and more...

[teufelich]

BRING BACK THE CYBER PUNKS WITH BIG AZZ GUNZ

<drools>

always did wonder why other people thought mechs could only be controlled by friggin sticks.

jack in, 3D hand sensors, eye visual confirmation, em pulse helmets, heck over half this stuff we have or are working on now.  I like how we are walking away from Kitty Hawk in this and using today and moving for tomorrow.

as per bribes, the system would allow a bribe at each point in the quest line, so if you had the cash or didn't want to do 1 part of the quest you could bribe your way out of it, and then walk through the next part if you wanted, and could bribe your way out of third etc etc etc

thus during the chain each part allows the player to choose if they want to go do it or shell out their fortune to me


I mean to the NPC