Buyer beware.

[Kellzz]

Over the course of my MMO playing, i have come to triple check all purchases before clicking buy. People just cant be trusted.

In DAOC, a common trick when player housing went live was to take an item (usually potions), but instead of listing it for 10g it would be listed for 10p. the font in the game making g and p look similar to those who did not take the extra 3 seconds to examine it.

in EVE players create contracts for crap items that sell for 1.3 mill or what have you, and try to sell them for 1.3 billion. Betting on the player getting into the 1.3 million mind set, and forgetting to count the number of zeros at the end.


Now, im not sure how sales will work in FOA, but i propse this, any item being sold over a certain threshold, for sake of discussion, lets say 1,000 chits, a warning box will appear asking the player if they would like to continue.

Attention! You are about to purchase a(n) [item] listed at 1,000 (ONE THOUSAND) chits. you currently have 3,928 (THREE THOUSAND, NINE HUNDRED TWENTY EIGHT) chits in your account. Do you wish to continue with this purchase?


This warning cannot be disabled, or in any way altered by the player. A bit of insurance for the CSR should someone still screw up and end up crying to the CSRs that they are a moron and failed to read the warning.

[Agamemnon]

I've seen this done in a number of games, mainly wow was the biggest offender I saw it in though. Guys listing crap/junk items at 5-10g a pop trying to make a buck off the nooby (thinking its good) or the rushed player not paying attention to what they're doing. I hadn't really thought to much into the programming of the trade system yet, to much other stuff behind the plate but there is a plan to do one, just not implemented yet.

[Kyomi]

I've seen this done in a number of games, mainly wow was the biggest offender I saw it in though. Guys listing crap/junk items at 5-10g a pop trying to make a buck off the nooby (thinking its good) or the rushed player not paying attention to what they're doing. I hadn't really thought to much into the programming of the trade system yet, to much other stuff behind the plate but there is a plan to do one, just not implemented yet.

-market should be based on the players bar none.   eve online makes great use of this.   i know i reference a lot to it, but most of the game is partial genius although the combat could be a bit more fast paced.   if you rarely see a certain powerful weapon you'd hate to see an npc buy it off you for half of what you'd expect.   instead consider how many of the item you found, the risk involved, and the loss you may have incurred to obtain it, to determine what you sell for on the market.   of course this does create scams but have it where the game places a (max) limit on certain modules, parts, etc.   for example small machine guns can sell on the market at anywhere from 1 dollar to 50,000 dollars.   no higher cause its 1 not powerful 2 less scams and 3 its at the players freedom and/or profit. 

as proposed in a separate question

[Hamilton]

I know we won't be able to prevent all scams (and being a scammer could be considered as game legal hazy-gray area of role-playing), but I think we could do something to at least make things easier to read.  At least a confirmation box.

[Kreator666]

Scamers are a plague, i hate them. They just spam spam spam obvious scams. Even if your block them they'll just create another toon and transfer stuff to him. Even the rp argument fail because other players dont want to deal with ppl that you feel like punching in the face while you should be enjoying your game time. Lets say 5% of your player base want to play asshats only to enoy the 95% rest, its does not benefit your suscriptions. Althrough I understand scam are often more related to human psyche/weakness then game mechanics, it would be nice to have them (the game mechanics) reduce its occurence as much as possible.

[Beovvulf]

-market should be based on the players bar none.   eve online makes great use of this.   i know i reference a lot to it, but most of the game is partial genius although the combat could be a bit more fast paced.   if you rarely see a certain powerful weapon you'd hate to see an npc buy it off you for half of what you'd expect.   instead consider how many of the item you found, the risk involved, and the loss you may have incurred to obtain it, to determine what you sell for on the market.   of course this does create scams but have it where the game places a (max) limit on certain modules, parts, etc.   for example small machine guns can sell on the market at anywhere from 1 dollar to 50,000 dollars.   no higher cause its 1 not powerful 2 less scams and 3 its at the players freedom and/or profit. 

as proposed in a separate question

I disagree.  Player controlled game economies are total crap.  Those very scammers and other disreputable individuals drive the inflation rate right through the roof.  I would rather make less money by having the game set prices, or price caps, than deal with prices inflated into those millions and billions mentioned earlier.

In real life the president, from time to time, will freeze prices because he knows that run away inflation is bad.

You talk about an item being 1 to 50,000 but even 50,000 for a low end machine gun is a rip off IMHO.  You are definitely hooked into the EVE economy which went through the roof about 6 months after the game started.  Prior to that prices were actually "reasonable" and not requiring every credit you have to buy something simple.

For items that the players develop there should be some sort of percentage increase limit over the pricing for a "standard" (off the shelf) similar piece of gear.  This can be a "sliding" scale based on how much better the item is and will be known by the game since it has to track the items capabilities anyway.

[Kellzz]

Beo does bring a good point up.

player driven economies, where the players have more than 50% control tend to get out of control at a rather fast rate. And to make matters worse, you have players who will dominate a certain market group due to their vast wealth.
Take for instance shuttles in EVE. a ship that SHOULD cost no more than 10,000 isk. However, players have started buying up as many of the ships as they can and reselling them for 8-10 MILLION.

Inflation is a large issue in MMOs. look at WoW. before BC, any item listed for more than 500 gold was considered overpriced and outrageous. BC rolls around and high end items sold for around 1000, WotLK, and it is not uncommon to see items sell for 6-10K (depending on server)

i have no issue with some sort of regulation, but it begs the question, how. If a player creates an item, do they have a right to sell it at any price they want? since FOA will have a rather complex and robust engineering system, how do you regulate player crafted items?

One way of keeping inflation under control are taxes. Every X time, X% is deducted from the player's wallet.
im sure this will generate a ton of hate, but there has to be something in place to keep the economy from going to hell, where you have the market players raking in millions each day for 4 hours worth of work. (this is a game, not real life, so any reservations in real life you have toward taxes need to stay in real life)

[SoulMiner]

Eve has the most Robust Market system I have ever played. Theres a reasion why this game has done so well and the market has somthing to do with it. if FOA can come close to that system then its a step in the right direction.

Pro's if you have the ambition to control X missle type you should beable to at least try. "people are more likely to stay with the game after investing hours into his/her's production capabilities.

Con's dont use a blueprint system with lottery in it (ex keep the market open) closeing the system to who ever has the most research points is a bad idea.

soul

[Hamilton]

I learned of a term of which would most likely fit the model to be used:

Economic Fascism

Which is how the system is going to be, the mega-corps control the market, not the players.  However, if players do not like that, then they can do something about it (within the game; not as in, go find another game).
If a player wants to control a certain market (or the whole market) that person must also deal with the corporations.

[Kreator666]

Regarding WoW economy: Its normal things cost more after an expantion since everything is boosted. When I was lv60, a 15 agility enchant was the best now how much is it +50 +100 ? It has nothing to do with inflation its just that things are buffed exponantialy for each expansion for that players can reach new high.

Regarding Eve economy: Eve economy rulez. For those who complained of the players who try to get smart by buying all said items and putting it back on the market, yes it can be done but at the same time it encourage competition. For a system like Eve to work, you need a large player base to limit ninja marketing tactics (thinks of Pythagoras who brought all the olive press of his village during a drought and sold them back to them for 2x more the next season lol)

Regarding inflation: It is a problem for every game but some games are more sensible to it. Basicly its a problem in games where you never loose anything and just keep on pilling stuff and incresing your wealth. FOA wont be like that. If your mech is destroyed well, it is. Thats the best money sink that there is. Also, taxes wont regulate inflation (or are not enough)

Regarding FOA economic fascism: Ham makes sense, "the mega-corps control the market, not the players". It must be that when instead of a governement you have an administration consel(cant figure how to spell)

must make a different post the modify option is having issues atm...every time i type it scrools up and its annoying

[Kreator666]

Yeah, so, continuing from above...

Mega-corp control the market....think of cars, you cant realy built one yourself, you have to go with GM or Ford or Toyota...

Lets say you are looking for a Senka mech, you can ask your neighbor to make you one in his basement but more likely go to your local Certified Sanka's retailler. If ppl start making there own bootleged Senka mechs then it will be branded as contraband (like it is with cigarets) as it is a violation of their trademarks. So maybe you would have to be licensed by your mother corp in order to craft those things what are mega-corp designed...or go black market.

Ham, does that makes sense ? or have you guys tough of another way ?

[SoulMiner]

the scroll problem is caused by internet explorer 8 just roll back yo 7 should be fine then. wait for them to get the bugs out.

[Hamilton]

...
Ham, does that makes sense ? or have you guys tough of another way ?

It does.  The economy hasn't been finalized and with some of the discussion from the DragonCon, has got me thinking of some things.  For example if Mechs should be owned by players or assigned to players, or both. 
Following real world economics, yes it does make sense to have licensing applied to war machines, even in some cases when the licensee and licensor are hostile to each other.

[mikato1]

*snip* 
Following real world economics, yes it does make sense to have licensing applied to war machines, even in some cases when the licensee and licensor are hostile to each other.

especially this- think about it, if you sell a mech to your enemies, you get money from them to buy the mech, plus money directly from the wallet found on their dead body, and then you get money from the bank to fix it, and do it all over again!

also, a player made mech, that design belongs to the player, but it is up to his/her own discretion whether or not they should keep it to themselves, and whether they think they can get more money out of their shares from letting one of the big 4 sell it.