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Force of Arms  |  Data At Rest (Archives)  |  Old General Discussion  |  Conquest System  |  Features needed for good clan management
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Author Topic: Features needed for good clan management  (Read 11631 times)

darkgreen

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Re: Features needed for good clan management
« Reply #15 on: March 03, 2008, 09:03:54 PM »
Yea, thats why I agreed in stating that kill mails make e-peen but I would like them in. Just more in a official tone then EvE copy/paste system.

...

Employer goes to said terminal, types in the transaction name/pw and gets all the information. It could be a nifty spreadsheet that breaks all the kills in that transaction for tonnage destroyed, mechs destroyed...

I endorse the RabidSpork, this is a great way to do it. Eliminating killmails to some degree also reduces griefing I think. Many EVE pvpers set out to kill the defenseless just to boost their stats.

Kellzz

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Re: Features needed for good clan management
« Reply #16 on: March 04, 2008, 02:19:17 PM »
Employer goes to said terminal, types in the transaction name/pw and gets all the information. It could be a nifty spreadsheet that breaks all the kills in that transaction for tonnage destroyed, mechs destroyed BUT not showing what items on the mech destroyed. Hopefully you'll be salvaging parts in this game not actually modules like Eve.



hmm..
Or, perhaps a system could be worked out that when you kill someone, it goes to this terminal. now, you cant copy/paste from the terminal (it would be disabled) and all records are kept for X days. Every player has their own account to access this terminal, with a guest account for merc/client relations. That way, the merc still gets paid, the client has their proof, and the e-peen wagging is reduced.
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RabidSpork

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Re: Features needed for good clan management
« Reply #17 on: March 04, 2008, 07:58:09 PM »
I was thinking of more of a corp level but yes, you pretty much spoke what I had in mind for individuals as well. Also something else that could be added for the merc/employer is a contract for tonnage destroyed against said target. So you could have a flat fee or tonnage etc.

Though if anyone can see what your killing (by giving them a guest pw) it could backfire. Lets say if you're a corp leader and simply do a verbal "You're friendly, we're not going to attack you" and then you do a stealth ops against them. Later that day you're hired by that same corp you had the black ops against and they checked your killings with the pw you gave them...well it's obvious what's going to happen if they can see what ya been up to  :D

That's why I was thinking of the merc setting up a file/folder getting the ID for said file then create a pw. Now the merc can't change this data at all but he could filter what is seen/not seen in that folder/file/whatever we're going to call it.

But even this isn't 100% stoppage factor for e-peen, I mean nothing is stopping these people writing this information down by hand and hosting it out of game. I'm just thinking if we start this culture now of kill mails being a constructive tool (more so then EvE) it might not degenerate to guys going "Lulz check n3wbi1 w1th crap set up".

Kellzz

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Re: Features needed for good clan management
« Reply #18 on: March 04, 2008, 08:51:01 PM »
Though if anyone can see what your killing (by giving them a guest pw) it could backfire. Lets say if you're a corp leader and simply do a verbal "You're friendly, we're not going to attack you" and then you do a stealth ops against them. Later that day you're hired by that same corp you had the black ops against and they checked your killings with the pw you gave them...well it's obvious what's going to happen if they can see what ya been up to  :D


Well you would dictate what the guest would see. If you did not want the guest to know what other nasties you have been into, that does not have to display.
The guest account would be read only, with you deciding what gets viewed.
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VorpalSpork

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Re: Features needed for good clan management
« Reply #19 on: August 01, 2008, 02:29:04 AM »

I was thinking about playing FOA (which I do constantly) and it occurred to me that all sorts of things should be built in if we are to play "real" clan warfare...

1) Taxation: must be some way to gather assets from clan members
    1a) Auditing: Managment should have some way of auditing the activities of members who aren't part of the normal tax system. If you tax PVE income and market sales, there must be some way of knowing how much that industrial dude is mining/gathering too, otherwise they'll just operate tax free and pass the stuff to alts to sell

Not really needed, but it would be nice. Although I'd rather see some way for the guild itself to earn money, preferably through guild vs guild PvP. Maybe something like the mines in Shadowbane. You fought over them and if you owned one it gave the guild a steady stream of gold and/or resources until some other guild took it from you.

2) Shared hangers / rights management / internal sales: would be good for there to be a way to share equipment and supplies or have a clan store WITHOUT opening possessions up for theft from corp spies. One things I hate about EVE is that they have sharable hangers but no way to limit how much is taken so once someone gets even a little trust they can steal everything in the corp. It happens regularly and some people just go around doing that every year or do it as part of corp warfare. I want my crew to be able to grab new mechs for battles from the corp hanger but to be limited to X amount of stuff based on rank

Believe it or not, my Shadowbane guild gave members pretty much anything they could possibly want. We did it without shared banks and without a single theft in my entire 2 1/2 years of membership. Know how? Have officers be responsible for handing it out and don't recruit random scrubs. It's really that simple.

3) Medals / recognition : please let me reward my troops with shiny ribbons everyone can see on their profile (or uniform!).

That would be cool.

4) Standings settings: there should be mechanisms for leaders to set standings so that all members of the clan see another clan as blue/grey/red for friendly/nuetral/hostile. Even more settings would be nice (purple = travel rights but no PVE, green = mutual defense pact, help if under attack!).

Very much agreed.

5) Centralized killmails: For lag prevention it makes sense to make killmails an on-demand database as opposed to a pushed service. Please make the killmails available up the chain of command too. (And through a web API would rock for the killboard programmers). I want to be able to check on reports of clan members killing friendlies without having to worry about duplicity.

I've tried just about every major MMO since Meridian 59 and Eve is the only one I can remember having anything like killmails. Apart from being annoying spam they significantly damaged gameplay in several ways and caused many e-peen measuring contests. Other than attempting to be an Eve clone I see no reason why any game would ever have killmails.

6) Loot auditing trail: I never want to have to yell "stay away from that wreck" on Teamspeak. Like the shared hanger limits this is one of those things where more rules makes for better online friends. My mech is covered with sensors, I should be able to review the tapes and see who took what :)

Again, easily fixed by actually having some sort of recruitment standards. Invite random nubs and your guild will just be a giant pick-up group. That said, it's fairly abnormal these days for a game not to say what party members loot in chat.

7) Secure but sharable clan assets: At some point there will be vehicles that are so expensive only a clan will have them (at first). If my clan saves up for a dropship I don't want it in the hanger because I only know 3 officers in person I can trust. It's the future, enable encryption codes and Lo-jack so that if the directors of a clan report a clan asset stolen it goes into shutdown at the next port and can only be retrieved by the clan (or drops to the clan hanger). People stealing things online because they don't have any feelable consequences and can use alts is just a pain in the butt and stupidly unrealistic. (And sure you could send bounty hunters, but unlike real life people can be multiple characters in an MMO so they just shift their "selves" to an alt and live off the stolen proceeds.)

Again, don't recruit random people. Have an application process and some sort of trial period. Require the applicant spend time with the guild before joining and get to know them. Involve the other guild members who have been playing with them in the decision about whether to keep them. This not only weeds out undesirables, but it makes sure the person is a good fit for your guild, shares your playstyle and will get along well with members. It also helps to do a forum search on the applicant. When someone is scammed or whatever they usually make a post about it. Plus reading their posts is just a good way to gauge their behavior and compatibility.  Recruit quality members and stuff like this isn't an issue.

Other things? Suggestions welcome.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2008, 02:35:11 AM by VorpalSpork »

Dead Eye

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Re: Features needed for good clan management
« Reply #20 on: August 09, 2008, 12:29:51 AM »
I don't like the idea of kill mail because I see some unrealistic factors to it. Like not being able to fake your death, or escape on foot after your mech has been blown up. I think if there is killmail, it's accuracy should not be 100% and should come X number of days after the game THINK you killed your target... that way there can be lazy mercenaries who only do half the work and get paid.  ;)

Luciferos

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Re: Features needed for good clan management
« Reply #21 on: August 21, 2009, 08:05:18 PM »
Agree @ DeadEye.

Heck, make killmails an NPC in-game bureau that collects information, which you can access for yourself/subordinates/etc by dropping some cashola.  Of course, they need to take time to formulate the report.  :)

Beovvulf

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Re: Features needed for good clan management
« Reply #22 on: September 11, 2009, 07:17:52 AM »
Personally I had hoped that part of this discussion would die out but now feel a need to comment on one aspect.

No killmails.  By the way, just what does this have to do with clan management?

This is a support mechanism that feeds bragging rights and the types of avatar kills that we have discussed in so many other threads as something unwanted in FoA.

In war you don't know who you just killed.  All that an army can do is count bodies.  They don't say "We just killed John Smith, Fred Flintstone, and Barney Rubble today".  They merely state that "There were 3 enemy soldiers killed in action today".  If they somehow manage to identify a major officer or leader that becomes a bonus.  Look how long the debate has been going on as to what leaders of the Taliban have actually been killed OR NOT.

This is a bad idea considering all of the concerns expressed regarding avatar death.  FoA should NOT be an EVE clone in every way.

If this concept should make it into the game I would like one other option considered.  I would like to be able to chose an option that does not allow any kill mail or information to go to any players at all.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2009, 07:33:24 AM by Beovvulf »

Hamilton

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Re: Features needed for good clan management
« Reply #23 on: September 11, 2009, 10:11:23 AM »
Maybe killmails should be part of an underground operation or gained by covert means?  Essentially to receive killmails, you will need to be part of a service (Intel) or have an established NPC contact.

Example:
- Hey, I just came from the zone and whacked a guy.  Can you do me a favor and see who it was for me?
- Sure thing boss.

Or in NPC interaction mode
Converse with NPC, by selecting:
- So how's it going?
-- Yeah whatever, anyways I have a favor to ask
--- Information on the last pilot I downed
---- Sure, here's your half now, the other half later.
Sign off,
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Kellzz

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Re: Features needed for good clan management
« Reply #24 on: September 11, 2009, 07:50:19 PM »
Actually, since being apart of a corp in EVE that heavily relies on kill mails, i have seen the importance of such a system.
At first i used to think they were nothing but tools used to brag, but they are very useful for letting a corp keep track of their losses, and to verify losses should said corp reimburse the pilot.
There are other reasons, but that was the biggest. Keeping track of losses/wins
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Beovvulf

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Re: Features needed for good clan management
« Reply #25 on: September 14, 2009, 09:09:07 AM »
Actually, since being apart of a corp in EVE that heavily relies on kill mails, i have seen the importance of such a system.
At first i used to think they were nothing but tools used to brag, but they are very useful for letting a corp keep track of their losses, and to verify losses should said corp reimburse the pilot.
There are other reasons, but that was the biggest. Keeping track of losses/wins
I can see this for EVE.  One battle can result in major asset losses and these would help to define what was lost more easily.

I'm still not sure that they have a place in FoA but would be willing to back off of my position far enough to consider mail to the corporation the losing mech was part of.  There would still be no need for player mails regarding this, in my opinion.  A player should always be aware of what mech and equipment they just lost and the player that won does not need anything more than what loot they were able to salvage.

Fighter pilots rarely knew who the enemy pilot was that they just shot down.  All they could do was add a mark to their plane indicating how many enemy planes they had shot down that were "confirmed".  Those pilots that were good enough to have many such confirmations could get serious ego's and a result would be a special marking or paint job on their plane (ie. the Red Baron).  This would identify them to their enemies.  In those cases you would know who you shot down or who shot you down.

So, for me, the question comes down to whether FoA is going for combat realism or just another PvP kill satisfaction game?  My hope would be for realism where the player knows that they just took out an enemy mech but beyond that there is not much unless the mech driver had marked his mech in a specific and "known" way.

Please understand that none of this has anything to do with what information the player will see beyond what has been discussed.  They may still see an avatar name during the fight and thus know that they killed such and such but mail confirmation and additional information via these types of mail is not needed.

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