Welcome to those visiting from MMORPG.com

[Mastiff]

Greetings to anyone who may have learned about us from MMORPG.com

I would like to take a brief moment to provide a summary of this project for those who may be learning about us for the first time and to clarify some things. First, Force of Arms is NOT a fantasy game. MMORPG.com has mistakenly listed us as a fantasy game at the time of posting this message. You will not be seeing elves, dwarves and magic fireballs in this game. You will be seeing lots of ammo flying through the air, massive explosions, massive war machines, and lots of science fiction. This is a game about future warfare and the lives of people caught up in an era of Corporate war. This is a game where mysteries abound and one in which you can play a true role in shaping the outcomes of conflict.

This is a project which remains in early stages of development and one in which we encourage your feedback. We are seeking to make a game that YOU want to play and we're quite willing to listen to what you would like to have in the game as we continue to develop it. Our community invites gamers to post their suggestions, to design settlements and to discuss hopes for the game in our forums. This is a game being made by gamers and you will find rough edges at this time in the development process. Give us time though, we're trying to make a game that will break from the mold in several areas.

Take a moment to introduce yourselves and you will quickly see that we're a development team that wants to be actively engaged with our community and that wants to hear from you. Thanks for stopping by and we look forward to your participation in making this project a success.

[BloodSerious]

 First, Force of Arms is NOT a fantasy game. MMORPG.com has mistakenly listed us as a fantasy game at the time of posting this message. You will not be seeing elves, dwarves and magic fireballs in this game. You will be seeing lots of ammo flying through the air, massive explosions, massive war machines, and lots of science fiction. This is a game about future warfare and the lives of people caught up in an era of Corporate war. This is a game where mysteries abound and one in which you can play a true role in shaping the outcomes of conflict.

Thank god.   

I am a big fan of MechWarrior, The Grand Council and BattleTech and am looking forward to watching the production and testing of Force Of Arms.

PS:  Please dont let ANYBODY from Sony Online Entertainment anywhere near this very promising game.


- BloodSerious   

[metatronic]

Thanks for posting on the swg/mmorpg forums, had it not been for that I would of never found a cool game like this to follow through its development. Good luck and grats on founding this project in spite of soe lol...

[texmechs]

Metatronic,

You are welcome.  I debated posting there for some time, but in the end it had to be done.  Being listed at MMORPG is not the end of the trail where we celebrate our successes and throw a conga rats party.  It is a beginning, a springboard we will launch ourselves from, that gets us a little closer to success.

Since we're going to be including our fans in the project so much, I invite you to come back often and tell us, in more detail, the dreams you have for our game, and the things you don't want to see.  Unlike the people at SOE, we're listening.

[William]

I will be watching you guys closely. Especially if your going to look at how SOE operates as an example of what not to do.

Kai

[metatronic]

Metatronic,

You are welcome.  I debated posting there for some time, but in the end it had to be done.  Being listed at MMORPG is not the end of the trail where we celebrate our successes and throw a conga rats party.  It is a beginning, a springboard we will launch ourselves from, that gets us a little closer to success.

Since we're going to be including our fans in the project so much, I invite you to come back often and tell us, in more detail, the dreams you have for our game, and the things you don't want to see.  Unlike the people at SOE, we're listening.

The best game ideas come to me during or after playing a game..

I will say a few things though.. Twitch combat = bad idea for mmo's, changing your game well after you have an established player base = bad idea (like we didn't know lol)..

Stat based games rule all cookie cutter ones.. Diverse and complex economics and crafting is fun.. More simulation based realism is better than fantasy but a mix of both can be ideal to add some fun.

Mining for resources is a must.. Resources must have various qualities and a similar swg spawn system.. To reduce lag and clutter make 1 all purpose miner... Allow player housing but no more than one house per player just increase the max number of items a house can hold..

Vehicle combat would be fun, modifying mech weapons, armor and engine components and crafting or engineering mechs/parts would be cool. Make them upgradeable like JTL ships.. Similar interface where you can swap in and out various components and also have various models of mechs, all craftable by engineers.

And have a vast loot table but no junk loot... An example is swg junk loot which is basically just credits once fenced or sold.. I'd rather see resource components drop and rare resources rather than fully made items.. Barring any npc factions you have.. Maybe you plan to have various npc factions roaming the countryside in mechs that we players will be grinding xp on, in that case full item components can drop.. But I'd rather not see an engine or weapon drop or be looted from some animal.. makes no sense to me..

Have a complex set of statistical mods.. Do not use the EVE model for learning a higher level mod.. I won't play a game that makes me wait a week to learn level 5 reverse engineering etc... The best method is to give players xp for using a specific type of weapon.. Flak cannons get you flak cannon xp, rail guns get you rail gun xp etc.. you can only learn one weapon at a time.. But can surrender skill boxes and change to a different weapon.. That type of xp grind I find is more appealing over the EVE stat based model..

Lastly, talk to Raph Koster and see what insight he might have to offer. Players want a complex virtual world, not just another mmo game for 12 year olds who want to pwn and be uber leet... Diversity, immersion, complexity, and lacking-tedium are they keys to success. Tedium can be more or less defined by manufactured time-sinks which hold players back and make a player feel constricted.. Freedom, and choice is what players want..

[Hamilton]

PS:  Please dont let ANYBODY from Sony Online Entertainment anywhere near this very promising game.

Well I been to the complex of SOE HQ before and live about a good 15 minute drive away...


On a more serious note, like to thank you all for taking a look and doing some reading at our sight.  And we do look forward to reading more of your input.

Fortunately with Force of Arms we're targeting a niche market and not going to appeal to the masses.  The game is meant to require smart playing, but yet make it enjoyable and not like work or an actual job; or dumbing it down.  A Mech Based Game is a niche onto itself and we know we're not going get millions of users.  Eve-Online is a good example of a niche game and has done very well with about I think 120,000 subscribers is the mark (out performing SWG too I believe)

Raph Koster's new project, which relies on "Choice" I think is indeed the right direction of doing things.  Give choices to the players and let the players decide.  Additionally we're hoping that empowering the player base to be allowed to take part in the creation of content should help stimulate things.  Our first example of this, is by allowing players to bring in their own Mech models.

[Legion]

metatronic,...........who's this guy, I love'em!           Modeler and FOA member!



"Little surprises around every corner, but nothing dangerous!'...........................W.Wonka!

[Ryan]

 First, Force of Arms is NOT a fantasy game. MMORPG.com has mistakenly listed us as a fantasy game at the time of posting this message. You will not be seeing elves, dwarves and magic fireballs in this game. You will be seeing lots of ammo flying through the air, massive explosions, massive war machines, and lots of science fiction. This is a game about future warfare and the lives of people caught up in an era of Corporate war. This is a game where mysteries abound and one in which you can play a true role in shaping the outcomes of conflict.

Thank god.   

I am a big fan of MechWarrior, The Grand Council and BattleTech and am looking forward to watching the production and testing of Force Of Arms.

PS:  Please dont let ANYBODY from Sony Online Entertainment anywhere near this very promising game.


- BloodSerious   

HAHAHAHA. OMG i already like this guy. Same page. I love mech warrior, mech assault, and the likes and ive been telling my buddies that i wish someone would make a mech warrior style mmo for like 4-5 years. Since i got into them. I hope we can stay on track and keep it a mech style game and not go too gundam. Not a big fan.

Also in total agreeance, don't even say the name SOE anywhere on these forums or im gone ROFL. They ruin every game they touch.

From trolling around on the site so far looks neat. Graphics thus far are kinda drab but hey, mechwarrior 4 is pretty drab but its still a blast to play. I will definately be very active on this project because of my inner flame for this type of game. Keep up the good work.

[Agamemnon]

Well welcome aboard all, and I can definitely state that Gundam's are not the most well liked mecha amongst the design team. 

[Motorhead]

Good luck.
If you can pull this off, and it doesn't stink to all Hell (aka DnL), I will definately give the game a shot !!

[Dradiin]

Hello everyone i am totally stoked about this project and wish i had come across it sooner. I will give a bit of my hobbiest background that pertains to this game.

I stated BattleTech when it was still owned by Fasa, my very first Mech associated book was the Grey Death Legion, i played the original infocom game the cresent hawks inception, and the sequel. Course i owned every single iteration of Mechwarrior, and Mechcommander (still think Dynamix did a better Mech battle simulation with Missionforce Cyberstorm). Played from beginning to end MPBT when it started on AOL (only reason i got AOL was to play it). I have also watched played and purchased several different games,movies,products based around Mecha (a ton fo them asian influenced ie Robotech/Gundam). Heavy Gear was a great game series too bad Atari dropped it. I was also one of the few people in the USA to purchase the 200.00 X-box game Steel batallions (amazing concept and play hard as hell and shortsighted development).

With all that aside a Mech based MMO has been a glimmer in my eye ever since i played DAoC. MPBT (Multi Player Battle Tech) was in my opinion not a MMO it was more a poorly implemented multiplayer mech game that seemed doomed from its inception). When i came across a post in the developer section on MMORPG.com i shouted whoop ! woke up the wife and registered as fast as i could.

I have read alot of your site and the features in the game it looks very promising and i hope that maybe i can lend suggestions. Granted i don't claim to know anything technical to help with Game development but 1of my brother's works  for Insomniax games (makers of rachet and clank and Resistance fall of man for the PS3) he helped with the multiplayer net code and AI for Resistance. My brother's and i have been working on a design document for a sci fi MMO and were at the stage to submit it to Insomniax but 2 weeks before we were going to present, they announced that there going to develope there own MMO. Needless to say my project is on hold indefinatly.

So i will post a few ideas i have running around in my head, i hope i am not coming across as arrogant if so, i appologize, i am more excited i came across this game and i might loose a bit of restraint.

-Allow pilots to move around on foot.
>Played Auto Assault for almost a year now and one thing that has continually come up is players want to eject or escape there vehicles destruction, not only this but one of the best scenes in a B-tech book was when a locust gets shut down by a guy with a SRM-inferno launcer, then commandeers the mech for himself.

-Research and Discoveries.
>One thing i loved about BattleTech the Table top game was making my own mecha from the ground up (i know you will have this in game), one thing i cannot stress enough though is to make weapons and other technical advances become part of the game structure as in research or the capture of scientific arcologies that yield a new particle cannon upgrade.

-Customizable paint schemes/Banners
>I might have missed this and if so i appologize, but making your Mecha  "Yours" would require nice decals and custom paint jobs.

-Players should progress more then Mecha
>I feel there should be a rarity to Mechs, that the players skills should be the primary upgrades and the Mechs should stick around more often then a change of undies. Mechs should be prominent in game yes, but they need to be treated as celebrated giant suits of armor.

-Players should be able to just be crafter/mechanics
>Some players like the idea of just making or fixing things and if you do have pilots walking around on foot why not allow players to be soley crafters,researchers, or even mechanics.

-Leave out aircraft (for now)
>I think if you start including aircraft the focus of Mecha based combat will get lost. I did notice two in the GDC video but i just feel that flight should be added as an expansion.

-Publisher ?
>Course a ton of players will rail against SOE and you can't very well go to Microsoft (kinda hold the videogame rights to Mechwarrior franchise) NCsoft might be one to consider but there currently developing a Mecha based MMO (asian style think Robotech/Gundam). There is Gpotato, and Campus Games. Most of those are Free to Play publishers.  I did read EA/Mythic are looking into other indie developers, but i dont know a ton about that, certainly they do not have any Sci-Fi based MMOs though. Acclaim is one of the new big dogs now as far as MMO publishers they have a swath of new MMO titles coming out (Warhammer 40k).

Anyhow very sorry i wrote a book, i got assloads of ideas and i do some writing also. If any of my ideas are at all interesting, reply and let me know. I am so totally excited about the prospect of this game, i hope the best for it.

Thanx in advance for all your hardwork.

Robert Granite aka Dradiin
 

[Agamemnon]

Hello everyone i am totally stoked about this project and wish i had come across it sooner. I will give a bit of my hobbiest background that pertains to this game.

Welcome Aboard

Played from beginning to end MPBT when it started on AOL (only reason i got AOL was to play it).

That was the name of the game I played way back in the 90's that I couldn't remember the name of. They had Air Warrior on there as well.

-Allow pilots to move around on foot.
>Played Auto Assault for almost a year now and one thing that has continually come up is players want to eject or escape there vehicles destruction, not only this but one of the best scenes in a B-tech book was when a locust gets shut down by a guy with a SRM-inferno launcer, then commandeers the mech for himself.

This is defintely in the game plan.

-Research and Discoveries.
>One thing i loved about BattleTech the Table top game was making my own mecha from the ground up (i know you will have this in game), one thing i cannot stress enough though is to make weapons and other technical advances become part of the game structure as in research or the capture of scientific arcologies that yield a new particle cannon upgrade.

In the game plan, including some twists. Initial tech-line will not be as high as what it eventually will be. Players will have lots to do in this arena.

-Customizable paint schemes/Banners
>I might have missed this and if so i appologize, but making your Mecha  "Yours" would require nice decals and custom paint jobs.

Check, banners, paint jobs, decals (hat in the ring) should all be in the initial offering.

-Players should progress more then Mecha
>I feel there should be a rarity to Mechs, that the players skills should be the primary upgrades and the Mechs should stick around more often then a change of undies. Mechs should be prominent in game yes, but they need to be treated as celebrated giant suits of armor.

This game is entirely skill based (not level based). More has been answered in other threads but I'll defer the Mecha question/info to Hamilton.

-Players should be able to just be crafter/mechanics
>Some players like the idea of just making or fixing things and if you do have pilots walking around on foot why not allow players to be soley crafters,researchers, or even mechanics.

At later offerings this will be greatly expanded to include something that has been left out of ALL mmorpg games to date, an "engineer" (crafter) end game on par with combat.

-Leave out aircraft (for now)
>I think if you start including aircraft the focus of Mecha based combat will get lost. I did notice two in the GDC video but i just feel that flight should be added as an expansion.

We are only at the base stage of aircraft at this point, I'll defer this question as well to Hamilton.

[Hamilton]

My brother's and i have been working on a design document for a sci fi MMO and were at the stage to submit it to Insomniax but 2 weeks before we were going to present, they announced that there going to develope there own MMO. Needless to say my project is on hold indefinatly.

Well I'll put this out there for you to think about (as well as any others).  If you think there is room for compromises with your work to ours, we can work something out.  If you like we can discuss further.  But whatever you decide, do not give up on your project, don't let it just disappear in the paper bin of junk.

-Publisher ?

I know this is going to come across bold or stupid, depending on the viewpoint, but here goes.
We will not be pursuing a large Publisher and I'll explain why.  I have spoken to a Rep with NCsoft back at the 2005 E3 and as well listened to a panel of people who work in the large publishers of their decision process when deciding on what game title to accept.
- The Title must have the potential to sell 1,000,000 copies
- The pitching game developer must have 5 to 8 previous games made
- Do not bother writing up a 250 or 500 page document, 80% of the game is going to be changed
- Expect a payment of about 10% to 20%, with new teams being at the low end.
- No royalties will be provided, unless the title is very very exceptional or new technology is being used.
- The pitching developer must agree to sign away the IP to the publisher.  Thus if a movie was to ever be made, the developer won't see a cent of it.
- Provide a 15 minute visual demostration, using copyrighted or non-original items is allowed for this.
- If there is an agreement, the original studio team is most likely going to be assigned to make a part of the game.
- To provide one dynamic story arc with one server cluster was not possible (even though the Bigworld Platform was out at this point of time that could do such a thing)


So overall, I didn't like what I heard and knew that was not something we could pursue.  Afterall we would need to make 5 games first and foremost...  that would take some time, time which then we could not put into use for a MMO.

As of this time, we are developing this title in the manner of an IT Business Project that deals with entertainment.  Now for the reasons of why we are going to be doing this ourselves:
- The Multiverse Platform, though in Beta, it requires no upfront cost and offers a great business model.  And the good news, it is not a cookie-cutter platform.
- Making a MMO, does not require double digit millions of dollars.  It is possible to do so at a very creative budget.
- Funding for technology is now back to Pre-Dot Com years.  Meaning that funding is possible as long as there is some experience in the field and a solid business plan.
- We have the capability to see this title through to the live environment, but funding will make things easier (in theory) and allow for more content to be made sooner, and speed up our phased approach method.
- There have been some small pioneer companies out there, that have shown it is possible for small independent teams to be successful; Runescape is a very good example.  Sure the graphics are not great, but at 800,000 paying subscribers at $5 a piece, well... not bad I must say.


So I hope that long winded post of mine help to answer that question.
Faith Manages

[Dradiin]

Wow Awesome reply thanx a ton for that information. Umm long winded i think not 

Regardless that was a very revealing reply and i really thank you a ton for your candor.

I gotta add i got done reading all the lore about the game, fantastic writing kudos to your writer. Whoever did the CG for each lore section is really good.

Also... you guys using a free 3d modeler like Milkshape or something a wee bit more spendy like 3dS ? Just curious.